Legislature(2001 - 2002)

02/05/2001 01:32 PM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
            SB  19-CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT/SOC SEC. #                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD moved to adopt the proposed CSSB 19(HES), labeled as                                                               
Version  L,  for  the  purpose  of  discussion.     There  being  no                                                            
objection, the motion carried.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN explained that  the findings and intent section in SB 19                                                            
was removed  in the committee substitute.   In addition,  the sunset                                                            
provisions  on the sections requiring  that social security  numbers                                                            
be provided  by applicants  for various  licenses, court  documents,                                                            
and to the  Bureau of Vital Statistics,  were reinstated.   The five                                                            
year sunset  provision was also renewed  on the provisions  allowing                                                            
the  Child  Support  Enforcement   Division  (CSED)  to  enter  into                                                            
agreements with financial  institutions for financial data matching.                                                            
She noted the  provisions in the bill that were left  as is (with no                                                            
sunset  provision)  were those  that  would  be detrimental  to  the                                                            
state, CSED, or  the people involved.  One example  is that the fine                                                            
for  incorrect employer  reporting  will remain  at  $10 instead  of                                                            
$1,000.   She  noted  Senator Halford  has  asked the  committee  to                                                            
consider an amendment.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. JULI  LUCKY, staff  to Senator Halford,  explained that  Senator                                                            
Halford has had  concerns about the CSED legislation  that passed in                                                            
1997 and 1998.  One concern  was the new hire reporting requirement.                                                            
Small employers  who hire people sporadically might  not be aware of                                                            
the  new  hire  requirement,  therefore  Senator  Halford  wants  to                                                            
provide protection from  liability for those employers for the wages                                                            
that should have been withheld.   That protection would not apply to                                                            
employers who  have been served with withholding orders.   She noted                                                            
the statute would be clarified  by adding, to the new hire reporting                                                            
section,  the phrase, "Violation  of this  subsection does  not give                                                            
rise to a private cause of action."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN asked  for an explanation of "private  cause of action."                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LUCKY explained  that  the  employer  could not  be  sued by  a                                                            
private party, therefore  the person who is owed the money could not                                                            
sue the employer.   She clarified that a private cause  of action is                                                            
not between CSED and the employer.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. DIANE WENDLANDT, Assistant  Attorney General, Department of Law,                                                            
said her  understanding  of the amendment  is that  it will  address                                                            
private liability to a  custodial parent or someone else who is owed                                                            
child support and might  attempt to hold an employer liable, outside                                                            
of statutory  penalties, which  are already  in place.  The  federal                                                            
law  requires  certain  statutory   penalties,  which  will  not  be                                                            
affected by the amendment.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. BARBARA MIKLOS,  Director of CSED, testified via  teleconference                                                            
and  said that  as  long as  CSED  remains  in compliance  with  the                                                            
welfare reform  requirements, she  doesn't think the amendment  will                                                            
do any harm.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. WENDLANDT  said  she doesn't  believe the  amendment will  place                                                            
CSED out of compliance.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN announced her  intention to pass the bill from committee                                                            
today.   She noted she  spent a lot  of time going  over all  of the                                                            
provisions of the bill to create the new draft.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LEMAN  moved to adopt Senator  Halford's amendment  (Version                                                            
L.1).  There being no objection, the amendment was adopted.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  LEMAN moved  to report  CSSB 19(HES)  as  amended from  the                                                            
Senate  HESS  Committee  with  individual  recommendations  and  its                                                            
accompanying  fiscal notes.   There being  no objection, the  motion                                                            
carried.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 774                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. JULIA TENISON, testifying  via teleconference from Chugiak, said                                                            
she would  like  to comment  on the  legislation to  repeal the  law                                                            
requiring the collection of social security numbers for CSED.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN explained that  when the original legislation was passed                                                            
in  1978 and  1998,  many sections  contained  a three  year  sunset                                                            
provision.  CSED submitted  legislation [SB 19] to remove all sunset                                                            
provisions, therefore none  of the provisions would have been up for                                                            
review.  The  committee has removed  three provisions from  the bill                                                            
so that they will come back for review in five years.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY noted  that she was contacted  by Ms. Tenison because  she                                                            
had some  problems receiving  a driver's license  due to the  social                                                            
security  number requirement.   Ms. Tenison  does not have  a social                                                            
security  number  and  has  received  several  tickets  for  driving                                                            
without a  license.  Ms.  Tenison is familiar  with the legislation                                                             
and has done exhaustive  research on the legislation that was passed                                                            
in 1997 and 1998.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. TENISON informed  committee members that she has  a case pending                                                            
before the Court of Appeals.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GREEN asked  if her  situation is  related  to child  support                                                            
enforcement.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  TENISON replied,  "Only  to  the extent  that  the legislation                                                             
passed and  the name of  child support enforcement  has reached  out                                                            
and touched my life."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN  said the CSED  director was asked  at the last  meeting                                                            
about  the impact  on drivers'  licenses.   She  thought that  issue                                                            
would  have to  be taken  up  with the  Division of  Motor  Vehicles                                                            
(DMV).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WENDLANDT  said  her  understanding  is  that  there  was  some                                                            
confusion  on  the  part  of  DMV  but   it  has  been  cleared  up.                                                            
Apparently, DMV  thought if a person did not have  a social security                                                            
number,  he or she  had to  obtain one  to get  a driver's  license.                                                            
That is not  CSED's position.  At  this point, if a person  does not                                                            
have a social  security number,  he or she  does not have to  obtain                                                            
one to get a driver's license.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1052                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. MIKLOS confirmed  Ms. Wendlandt's statement and  said she talked                                                            
to the director  of DMV a few weeks  ago.  The director assured  her                                                            
that she sent  a letter to all field offices informing  them that if                                                            
a person has  never had a social security  number, that person  must                                                            
sign an affidavit  saying so.  She was not sure whether  Ms. Tenison                                                            
has gone back to DMV since that time.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. TENISON  said she has  not.  She pointed  out her concern  about                                                            
this  law is  that when  she went  to DMV,  the office  manager  was                                                            
enforcing this  legislation and handed her a copy  of a direct quote                                                            
from the statute.   Ms. Tenison was  denied reissue of her  driver's                                                            
license.   Nothing in  the law itself  allows  for correcting  a big                                                            
error in the  law after the fact.   That is why she is in  court and                                                            
does  not have  a driver's  license.    She stated  the legislature                                                             
created  a  situation   that  needs  to  be  looked  at   seriously,                                                            
especially  the findings and  purposes section,  because the  law is                                                            
unreasonable and unconstitutional.   She believes the constitutional                                                            
issues  surrounding  this law  are very  serious and  should not  be                                                            
pushed aside.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Regarding  DMV, MS. TENISON  said she has  not been contacted  about                                                            
the change in policy.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN asked  Ms. Lucky to contact the director  of DMV and put                                                            
her in contact with Ms. Tenison.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY agreed  and informed committee members that  Ms. Tenison's                                                            
main concern  is about  the constitutionality  of collecting  social                                                            
security numbers.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1187                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN informed Ms.  Tenison that most people in the room would                                                            
have fully  agreed  with Ms.  Tenison 10  to 15 years  ago when  the                                                            
federal government  forbade the use  of social security numbers  for                                                            
identification.    Now  the federal  government  has  reversed  that                                                            
decision  and allows social  security numbers  to be required.   The                                                            
new federal  directive has changed  the constitutionality  question.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  TENISON  responded  that  the  federal  law  does  not  mandate                                                            
anything  -  it says  states  need  to do  things  if they  want  to                                                            
continue  to get money.   Section 7 of the  Privacy Act of  1974 (PL                                                            
93-579) says a  person cannot be required to give  his or her social                                                            
security number.  She said  she has done enough research to know the                                                            
law has  not actually changed,  even though  the federal  government                                                            
may say it has.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN said she would look into that.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. TENISON said  if the committee is interested,  Senator Halford's                                                            
office might  be able to  provide a copy of  the legal research  she                                                            
has done on the constitutional  issues for her case before the Court                                                            
of Appeals.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GREEN  thanked Ms. Tenison,  Ms. Lucky, and Ms. Wendlandt  and                                                            
announced the committee would take up SB 2.                                                                                     

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